Reverse T3–do you have this problem in excess? Let’s talk!

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This blog post has been updated to the current day and time. Enjoy!

Most thyroid patients have heard about T4…the thyroid storage hormone, also called a pro-hormone. You’ll see it in literature as “thyroxine” or “l-thyroxine”–the latter as the name for a man-made T4.

And many know about T3…the active thyroid hormone which rids us of hypothyroid symptoms.

And as patients become more informed, they learn that the body not only converts T4 to T3 through what is called deodination, it also provides some of that T3 directly. That is an important distinction! The latter fact can be why thyroid patients report getting far better results with natural desiccated thyroid (NDT) like Naturethroid, NP Thyroid or other brands.

Patients might also learn that there are actually five thyroid hormones made in your body, which is also what’s found in NDT: T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin.

Reverse T3

But in every individual, whether a thyroid patient or not, a thyroid can also convert T4 to the inactive RT3 (reverse T3) RT3 is an inactive thyroid hormone, as compared to T3 as the active thyroid hormone. And converting to RT3 is a natural and necessary process, even if there are consequences.(1)  The body might convert T4 to RT3 as a way to clear out excess T4, or as a way to reduce your metabolic rate.  It can happen if you go through any of the following:

  • surgery
  • a major physical accident
  • certain heart problems
  • intense chronic stress
  • restrictive low carbohydrate diets (2)
  • chronic inflammation

When Reverse T3 is a problem

Unfortunately, many thyroid patients make far too much RT3, as well, and patients with their open-minded doctors have been making cutting edge discoveries about this fact.  Many patients have seen that their high levels of RT3 can be found with the following conditions:

  • high cortisol
  • low cortisol
  • low iron levels
  • possibly low B12
  • lyme disease
  • gluten intolerance or Celiac
  • other undiscovered and untreated underlying issues that can go hand-in-hand with being hypothyroid.

Why is a high level of RT3 is problem? That excess RT3 is making itself lazily comfortable on your thyroid cell receptor sites, preventing the active T3 thyroid hormone from doing its job on that same receptor to get you out of your hypothyroid state.  It becomes akin to a clogged up drain to your organs and cells. So you stay hypo and symptomatic, in spite of seemingly “normal” other labwork.

The solution

Informed patients discovered they needed to discover and treat all the reasons contributing to their body converting to excess RT3.

Want to read more? All the below is based on patient experiences and wisdom to share and work with your doctor:

For those with the revised Stop the Thyroid Madness book, there is also more good detail in Chapter 12 called T3 is the Star of the Show, page 155, to continue your education. This is all good information to take into your doctor’s office.

JanieSignature SEIZE THE WISDOM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(1) http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jcem-41-6-1043

(2) http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jcem-42-1-197

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24 Responses to “Reverse T3–do you have this problem in excess? Let’s talk!”

  1. Janet

    Oh, man! I hope I remember to tune in this week!! (Nighttime is my worst time of the day – I’m just a slug and my brain shuts down.) I just received results from VRP showing that I have sluggish adrenals. So, I NEED to remember this on Thursday!! Ahhh!

    Reply
  2. Sandy

    Oh boy! My doctor’s office won’t even do a T3 and T4 test much less a Reverse T3. I just went yesterday for my regular blood draw & when I asked if I could have my T3 & T4 tested, the head nurse said, you can if you want to waste money; we only test those to make a diagnosis – we already know you are hypo, so we only do the TSH to regulate your meds. UGH! Last year, I found an “Armour” friendly doc, from the Armour list & he told me I need to take SYNTHROID. On top of that, he wanted to do a ‘full panel’ on me to make sure I wasn’t really peri- rather than hypo – because I was over 40 – to the tune of $600 in tests. I said no thanks & never went back.
    Any suggestions on how to find a doctor that is REALLY “Armour” or natural friendly? I’m going to see a new compounding pharmacy next week – maybe they will have suggestions. BTY, I tried to contact Armour, thru the website to tell them about this doc – no go, no e-mail address or form to fill out on the website.

    (From Janie: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/how-to-find-a-good-doc plus use patient groups: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others )

    Reply
  3. Judy Abbie10

    location Indiana? I have three doctors and FB with one.
    another women uses the Health food store route or medical.
    20yr family doctor who has walked the walk with me.
    Started with synthroid now knows how much difference dessicated can make or adding T3. Internal med. MD, F.A.C.S Think I have letters correct believe it means he does medical traning and information up dating of knowledge..
    If wrong please correct me.

    Reply
  4. Allison

    Hi Janie,

    Is the call recorded and the transcript published?

    Hopefully I can tune in, but I’m from Oz so I’m not sure about the time difference (will have to check).

    cheerio

    (From Janie: if all works well, yes, it will be recorded. No published transcript.)

    Reply
  5. Jan

    I have high RT3. It hasn’t been fun at all, since I stay hypothyroid no matter my dose. I have hit some breakthrough with going up to 30mg of Hydrocortisone. I am still going through the “thyroid overdose” now as all that T3 is hitting my cells. It’s been a nasty ride trying to get well, so I am very happy to see more information about this. I do hope to tune in, if not I’d love to hear a summary or the recording.
    Thanks for all you do Janie and Val too!
    Jan

    Reply
  6. Lindsey

    Find a compounding pharmacist in your area!

    http://www.iacprx.org/site/PageServer?pagename=lookup_survey

    Reply
  7. carolyn junter

    I was having problems with the REformulated Armour but did NOT know it was the cause until my mail order pharmacy told me they could no longer get it.

    Then, thru the internet, almost a year after the reformulation, I finally knew that others were ALSO having serious problems like me…with the Armour “changes” in their formula, and was almost to actually die…..I discovered this website and my eyes wee belatedly opened.

    I found the compounded natural thyroid did NOT work like the old original Armour and in desperation, I got the ERFA natural thyroid…and gradually ….I started to feel improved…little by little.increments ever so slowly….but it seemed to stop and reverse the scary downward slide to “oblivion”….sigh

    Reply
  8. Amy M

    I am curious about one aspect of T3-only replacement. For those who are planning on staying on this forever (like Val) do you have concerns about not replacing all your thyroid hormones the way desiccated thyroid does? I just wonder if this is a healthy way to go for long-term replacement…

    Reply
  9. Karen McLeod

    My sister has a very high reverse T3 (550) and was told she has a high heavy metal toxicity. She just sent in a urine test to Genova lab. Now I wonder if she’s wasting money on the test.

    Reply
  10. Maria ; The Ever Frustrated Aussie Who Is Starting To Doubt Her Own Sanity!

    Hi all. Today I went to a new doctor. I won’t go into details else I will be here all night! BUT needless to say he belittled me and my opinion of my high Reverse T3 at 405 (I’m in Australia) as being, and I quote; “…a ridiculous American garbage test. Means nothing. There is nothing wrong with you. You have anxiety. I see it everyday here, believe me, I am an expert in diagnosing anxiety!”
    I asked if I could just prove HIM right by having it for a few months, and seeing what happens, then if it didn’t work I would concede defeat. He told me that I would NEVER get a supply of T3 in Australia because NO-ONE prescribes it, that he is not allowed to. (which I found out later was a total fabrication!) To stop wasting my time looking for an excuse to take my mind off my anxiety and learn to deal with it. That he was here to prove once and for all the simple T4 WORKS! (I have NO thyroid due to surgery.)
    He went on and on, even throwing the results at my friend who was with me, yelling, “SEE! They show she is NORMAL!” Needless to say, I left in tears, and I am a strong person! The fight to be heard is a difficult one! Now I know how the Suffragettes felt!
    Funny enough, another doctor (unrelated issue) told me her husband has Hashimoto’s and feels terrible on T4 only and can’t convince his doc’s of his symptoms either!

    Reply
  11. marianne thode

    Janie, just happened to get into a site on asthma. Did you know they are discontinuing inhalers with epinephrine, both prescription and across the counter? Don’t know how politically correct you have to be, but you may want to get this word out.

    (From Janie: this really doesn’t apply to the topic of my blog post and RT3, but one mention may be ok. Here’s the FDA notation about it: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/UCM182381.pdf)

    Reply
  12. Valerie Olson

    I have Hashimoto’s, with TPO antibody levels having been reduced from over 1000 to 116 by avoiding gluten, taking Westhroid Pure dessicated thyroid and 50 mg. Lugol’s daily. Supporting my adrenals with Dr. Wilson’s Herbal Adrenal Support has been a great help. I feel fairly stable compared to several years ago, but would like to know if anyone with a Reverse T3 of 15 or higher has tried T3 only in the sustained release form and found it to be more helptul than traditional dessicated thyroid. Dr. Mark Starr writes in his book, Hypothyroidism Type II: The Epidemic”, that he and his mentors consider it significant to have a Reverse T3 of 15 or higher, and can contribute to hypothyroid symptoms. By the way, the makers of Armour, to my knowledge, will not validate that their product is free from GMO corn. Westhroid Pure does not.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      If you have an RT3 problem, you will need to find out why and treat it, first and foremost. i.e. Dr. Wilson’s Herbal Adrenal support may not be enough to get out of a cortisol issue, even though you feel better. Inadequate iron levels are another reason, we’ve noticed, for continued RT3 issues. In the meantime, patients with an RT3 problem will either be on T3, dosed 3 times a day and perhaps a 4th small dose at bedtime, or they will be on a small dose of NDT, such as 1 1/2 grains or less, then add T3 to it, multi-dosed as above. Once the adrenal and/or iron issue is corrected, they are able to move to straight NDT and feel wonderful again.

      Reply
  13. Hadassah

    Janie , I was tested for RT3 and it came back at 21.1 Reference Range 9.-0 to 27.0 and yes I have all the hypo symptoms . Very Low temp , fuggy thinking , low energy , cold hands and feet . I’m on 100mcg Synthroid and 5mcg Cytomel . I was wondering since Drs don’t know much about it . If you could perhaps please share with us who are going through with this problem how to deal and do about it ? I’m sure a lot of us are walking around with this problem who would very much appreciate it .

    Reply
  14. Mary

    My latest labs are ft3 3.5(2.3-4.2) ft4 1.29 (0.90-1.80) t3 to t4 % uptake 29(21-35)
    Was on Tirosint 75 & cytomel 20. The doctor said these labs means I have high RT3 and he adjusted my meds to Tirosint 25 & slow release t3 28 mcg. Any input please ?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Mary. We never just guess as your doctor seems to be doing. Because I’m not seeing anything that outright equals high RT3 without actually doing the RT3 along with the FT3.

      Reply
  15. Jill

    Have conversion issue identified after going too high on Armour and subsequent RT3. Managed to alleviate by deceasing Armour and increasing T3. Still working on optimal dose when RT3 hit again over the last few days. Am miserable. I am taking 60 Armour (can not handle more T4, if my FT4 goes above .8 I get RT3) and 30 mcg T3. Yesterday I split Armour and T3 as follows – morning 30 Armour 25 T3 and afternoon 30 Armour so I did decrease 5 mcg T3. I am very small and all of my dose increases are only 1/2 of what most people take so to get where I am, it took forever and am still hypo. I am seeing holistic doc to pursue adrenals since endo only did blood and urine and I believe this has been my problem from the beginning. What would you do with my current dose to help alleviate RT3? If I reduce any of the T3 now, will I have to increase up again slowly like I had in the past? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Just wanted to mention, although endo was argreeable to Armour and T3, she does not believe RT3 causes any symptoms and is just a means to eliminate excess T4. She insisted on some T4 so that is why I kept the Armour.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Based on what we’ve observed and learned over the years, being unable to raise NDT without seeing a rise in RT3 usually points to a cortisol issue and/or inadequate iron. So yes, we go quite low with NDT since the RT3 is coming from the T4. Then some add in small amounts of T3 to try to somewhat alleviate the hypo. But we even have to be careful raising T3, because having pooling of T3 can also happen in the presence of a cortisol or iron issue.

      Reply
      • Jill

        Thank you for your response. I can not raise the T3 because I feel that that is now causing the problem since I am on so little Armour/T4. I just took 12.5 mcg T3 and will take the other half later today and stop the Armour temporarily. I may also take 5mcg T3 later in the day but can’t have it interfere with my Floravital before dinner. To add insult to injury, had my first bone density, osteopenia, but can not even think of adding calcium to the mix until I get everything else sorted out. Approaching my 3rd anniversary living this nightmare (2 years of treatment refusal due to TSH “in normal range”!!!!).

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          By the way, it has not harmed people to be on low doses of NDT until they correct the cortisol and/or iron issue….i.e. the low T4 it causes. And we greatly empathize with your frustration towards TSH-obsessed doctors!

          Reply
  16. Kim Fiorenzo

    Just reading up on RT3. Mine is very high, but so is my T3, and F T3. I take 3 grains Naturethroid. Sounds like I should have my dose lowered to maybe 1 or 1/2 grains and add T3? Can someone help me with this…its pretty confusing.

    Reply
  17. Jenna

    Am I missing something here? What exactly are the symptoms of Reverse T3? I have searched this website and Google and only come up with pages explaining what it is..but not the symptoms. I don’t want to waste money testing for something I might not have. Can someone post a link that actually lists some symptoms? Thanks.

    Reply

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